LG, that is SO true! XD

Yep.

Calling with Wizengamot!

Angelcap brought something to my attention today, she asked us to pray for her grandmother. According to that poll I put up, 44% of the spot is Christian and 21% is Atheist.

I want to know if anyone else here is as religion-phobic as me, and if anyone else finds it mildly offensive to be asked to pray for something.

Obviously I find it mildly offensive. Nothing that I would report or go on a passionate rant about, but I think we should keep all religious practices out of the Rivalry.

Many people hold their religion sacred and want to share it, but if you start preaching (not that I think any of us will :P) I will probably start yelling at you.

So will anyone second this motion?

(I'm a hardcore atheist BTW, hence the religion phobia)

Oh yes, and just a reminder, when this forum gets updated, it's usually pretty important, so if you see that someone's posted here, come and see what's going on!

Still waiting...

Ah, Lexa, I completely agree. I also believe that people shouldn’t bring their personal life into the Rivalry, even though you didn't say that. I second this!

Thank you Kadaj! So we need one other member or prefect to third that and then we can vote?

I agree to :P

Excellent :)

I wouldn't be offended, if I were you. I mean I'm Christian but still, maybe she just wants her grandmother to be okay and our beliefs are that praying to God will help. I think its rather insensitive for even atheists not to hope for the well-being of Angelcap's relative who is obviously very important to her. You don't have to pray, atheists, just be hopeful that she gets better. It would be a very kind thing to do. And don't worry LUNAFAN, since I'm Christian, I will pray for your grandmother. If she is dead, may she rest in peace. I have just scolded you calmly, Lexa.

I don't agree. I actually agree completely with Poseidon. No, you don't have to pray for her Grandmother, but you can wish her the best. I know you don't believe in that, but as Poseidon said, I think it is insensitive of you to freak out because she asked you to pray for her Grandmother, when something is obviously wrong. I'm sure you could calmly explain that you don't believe in God, or prayer, but that you hope for the best. This does not need to be an issue brought up, in my opinion.

I just agree because kadaj made me xD

Thanks for backing me up Bre! And simple, you call yourself a Gryffindor XD

I never thought this would become a great issue..But you've got to know..hmm..okay, if u don't want to pray,don't.You don't know how it is to study 4 ur exams when all ur relatives r with ur grandma at the hospital n everyone goes here n ther taking things, telling me to study n when we r getting worse n worse reports frm the doctor.....Go on, argue about everything..After all, god is the one who is deciding everything..EACH N EVERYTHING.If u don't believe in GOD, don't believe.LEXA, the reply u gave me at the great hall was hurting..Remember, U R THE ONE WHO ASKED ME TO BE POLITE WHEN I CAME TO THIS PLACE.If anyone is saying that I was being rude, u've got to tell that to other people first.Such a rule was never here at this place.I didn't know anything.

I just made a mistake, sorry guys, it was obviously Luna who posted that :P

Now let me read everyone's comments.

@Poseidon, think again! Did I ever say I didn't want her grandmother to get better? No. I said I found the idea of being asked to pray mildly offensive.

@LG, I think you guys are confusing "praying" with "well-wishing". Of course I hope Luna's grandmother gets better, but I can think of that without praying to a divince being.

@Simple, well it would be nice you shared your real opinons...

@Luna, once again, making assumptions. You don't know how many times that has happened to me. Please don't assume that I don't care what happens to your grandmother. I care about what happens to everyone, whether they be my own dearly departing 3 grandparents, 2 aunts, and 1 baby cousin, or yours.

Let's review. You find my words offensive, I find being asked to pray offensive. There's an answer staring us in the face here. Don't ask people to do anything with religious connotations, and I won't say things that could be interpreted as offensive.

I honestly don't want to have to write a huge comment justifying my belief system and explaining why I find it offensive to be asked to pray, as I've already had to explain my entire family and circle of friends.

Just in the way you would be offended if I told you to denounce your God, I find it offensive to be asked to pray to him.

And you really can't use religious arguments like "god decides everything" on me. That's just plain rude. I don't think you were being rude, I think you were upset and didn't think there was anything wrong with what you were doing. There was no rule about not posting religious stuff, but that's what I'm trying to do here. We can see how it's made a mess of everything already, so the simple thing to do is not post anymore!

Now I'm very sorry if I've offended you (which I obviously have. This is why I hate religion) and I do hope your grandmother gets well. I wouldn't wish what I've gone through on anyone. And obviously I'm not praying, but if your God is so powerful, he'll hear my thoughts and take them into consideration.

(BTW did you want me to private message you if I ever thought you were being rude? I try not to do that because I've been framed and kicked out of my home-spot by a girl who said I sent her a rude messate)

I did NOT make you agree, Simple!

I told u Lexa, if u don't want to pray, don't.If u don't want to believe in God, don't.Did I tell u to change ur beliefs n thoughts? Uh?

Ok, I'm not gonna ever tell anything like that again.....I hope that satisfies everyone..

Religion is a big issue, but it does not have to be an issue here! How about we all just agree to refrain from making religious comments, and if we do on accident, we can just apologize if anyone was offended. It doesn't have to be this big of a deal, we're all friends here, right?

Right!

Ok, sorry guys...will never repeat it again!

I have no opinons on this XD

Huh? when did I ask for my grandmother to be prayed for? I don't even remember.

Ah ok, I just read the entire text, apology accepted Lexa.

I do wish your grandmother to get well soon Luna, I'm sure it brings a lot of anxiety on you and your family, your grandmother is really lucky to have a granddaughter like you.

Thnx 4 saying those words..It has brought a great relief over me..

It will be alright Luna, she has my prayers.

I'm sorry that this discussion made you feel a little worse, this should have been done at another time, at least after your grandmother got a little better. It's really insensitive to bring an issue against someone who's asking for moral support but rather was been a subject of an issue at a time that they're feeling down.

Kudos to Poseidon and LGx3 for being fair and sensitive to this matter.

Now why did LG's suggestion get accepted and mine didn't?

Because I STILL fail to recognize how important the man in the sky is to everyone. Just as important as my nonexistance is to me. Sorry about that.

Not that I'm smart enough not to to challenge everything that comes my way, but I can see a lost cause when there are 5 people waving it at me.

I do hope your grandmother gets better, and that your entire family lives for years. It's hard to watch 6 relatives leave you within two years. Hope you never have to.

Gel, call me LG :)

Lexa, I honestly don't remember you offering a solution. You just asked if anyone thought being asked to pray was offensive. And did you have to make that comment, when we just agreed to refrain from making religious comments? :|

I said I wanted to keep all religious practices out of the Rivalry. You can see that in my first post here.

I made that last comment to try to explain why I didn't realise I was being insensitive. I know I often come across as brusque when I lose a debate, but that's just me trying to keep my temper.

no Lexa, there was no intention to single you out. As you can see, you also had your own support from the other members.

And LG's and Poseidons stand were only about explaining Luna's intention in asking for comfort in a form of prayer, and not to deprive you of your feelings re. religion.

I've even fairly considered your grievance about the topic of religion by impliedly saying that we can discuss this concern, just not "yet" in consideration to the main person concerned who is Luna, cos she is for now bothered by her grandmother's condition.

Even in reality, a judge will postpone a hearing if any of the accused, witness or victim is sick or not in psychologic capacity to stand for trial in fairness to that person, (so I assume as I hear in the news or read in books), since its what a trial is all about, fairness and impartiality, to reduce flaw and lapse in judgment in a trial.

And no, no one's forcing our religion here on anybody. When Luna asked for prayer, its how we Christians support and comfort one another, in a form of prayer, as 'Poseidon and LG' had also already excellently explained.

Cos this is how we Christians are comforted.

However point well taken, religion is always a sensitive issue to discuss, this is why this should be avoided as much as possible, but again, surely it was not Luna's intention to bring up religion, she was asking for comfort and support for her and her grandmother, her feelings right now are more important than anyone else, regarding this topic.

As this will also be my last post re. this issue.

I didn't say I was being singled out...

I understand that this issue is "closed" because everyone's supposedly posted their last comment about this.

I also understand that she was asking for comfort, but obviously it took away some of my comfort too. This can wait though, I get it.

I would also like to add that my second last grandfather has been on his death bed for a month and that he died yesterday while I was flying home desperately hoping I got to see him one last time.

I'm telling you this because I feel like you guys think I don't understand how Luna feels and that I'm being insensitive. We're in the same situation, in a way, here. Except that my grandfather died while I was flying home and she's hoping that her grandmother is alright.

But sure, this is finished. It obviously isn't as big a deal to anyone else as it is to me.

BTW I'm super glad that the Wizengamot is working the way I hoped it would (I honestly am, this isn't sarcastic)

Oh yeah, just in case you thought of it at all (you probably didn't though), please don't pray for my grandfather. He was as faithless as me and fought for his beliefs as strongly as I hope I can fight for mine. He will inspire me forever and I know he wouldn't have liked prayers to any god, Christian or otherwise.

My condolences to your family's lost Lexa, you seem to look up to him a lot, he must have been a great man. And no, we can only offer what would be comforting to you.

Let's have a silence to honor his memory:

Hey guys.

I've been thinking, that it's unfair that a Slytherin can go into anyones Common Room, but non-Slytherins are not allowed in theirs.

I think there should be a universal rule, either everyone is allowed in every Common Room, or you are only allowed in your designated Common Room.

Does anyone agree? If so, we'll need to vote on if everyone is allowed in every Common Room, or if you need to stay in your own Common Room.

I agree! That's unfair because it would make the Slytherins seem superior to all the other houses.

The only exception might be to congratulate one another on Quidditch matches and of course Lexa needs to get all the captains.

I'm a bit put out that you're viewing me as just "a Slytherin" when I pop into your common rooms to ask for information for the Wizengamot or Quidditch Office. It's not like I'm barging in putting up Slytherin posters everywhere *cough*. When I poke my head in, I'm asking for information that will benefit the spot in the simplest way I can, addressing your entire house at one time, respectfully and politely. It's so much easier than tracking down every single active member and tossing them a wall post.

I'm certainly happy to stop coming into your common room, but I know that the Gryffindors welcome visitors and I'm allowed to be there, and the last time I checked, Hufflepuff was allowing visitors as well.

Common room rules are up to the individual houses and their members. Slytherin has explicitly stated that we do not welcome visitors of any sort. Gryffindor stated that they welcome visitors. I am unclear about the rules that Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw have set out.

Please make a point of asking your Forum Creator to post these rules publicly in your welcome text so that it's crystal clear to anyone wishing to enter.

:)

That being said, no visitors in Slytherin (including congratulations for quidditch games).

Well, Best would have to post mine because PotterForever never comes on anymore.

And now I will restate our options as I see them:

1. No one is allowed in other common rooms
2. Everyone is allowed in any common room
3. Houses make up their own rules about who can enter
4. Prefects can visit other common rooms for business such as Wizengamot, quidditch congratulations on behalf of their house, a request for help of some sort, etc.

I prefer 3 or 4. Think of it like this: The Wizengamot is the federal government, and we can delegate things to individual houses, which are like provincal governments. Within each house there are pockets of people who think alike; municipal governments! :P

I've got governments on the brain, spring election for Canada! Yay!

i like number 3 :)

I like number four.

I'm leaning towards a combination of both actually:

Number 3 is the main rule, but 4 overrides it.

i.e. Slytherin can ban all visitors, but prefects can "invade" on official business.

Do we have any way of contacting Potterforever?

If not, we can just ask best to edit her first post in the common room to show the rules.

Does this mean you like Number 3 as well?

Jeez I'm just seeing all of Poseidon's posts for the first time!

Okay so...what's wrong with what I've been doing then? If I'm just getting prefects and captains, which is what you just said is alright...what's the issue? I'm not barging in for my own fun :P

Ok, I'm leaning towards both 3 and 4. I think that's fair. By the way how does this government work. Is it 4 prefects with equal power among them or does everyone have an equal position?

It's 4 prefects with equal power amongst those 4 prefects.

Each spot member has a voice here (obviously) but the prefects carry slightly more influence on spot decisions.

As I said before, it only takes 1 prefect to bring up a motion or second it, but it takes 2 regular spot members.


We can see that LG brought up a motion, Poseidon seconded it, I counter-motioned, and Kadaj and Izzy together seconded it.

So now the polite thing to do is wait for LG to see everything :)

I like #3 as well :)