I'm feeling too lazy to add my option.

I've been disliking him this entire season (and part of S3) and his whole WOE A MARTYR IS ME shtick does not impress me. He bores the tears out of me.

Darn, it really sucks to find out that you broke a seal, and that now your the only one who can stop lucifer from rising, yeah he might be being a martyr, and I agree parts of season 3 he was beginig to wear on me, but he has in fact been asked by heaven to stop somthing or dye trying, and I think that is the defintion of martyr, so I can accept his pouting a bit.

My heart was breaking for him... He's definitely a different Dean, but I think the only way he can redeem himself is by fixing it all.

=( my poor baby! lol

I want someone to fix him ♥

His life can't suck more than this or can it?It's too much a load for one single person and the worst hasn't come yet! :(

only his family can save him...sam's all that's left..Dean needs his family's support right now!he needs to know that he has someone/something to fight for coz partly what's breaking him is that he can't protect Sam anymore....while sam is being hothead as usual trying to prove that he can handle things himself..which he can but being all-powerful ain't worth it if he can't save Dean..he needs to remind himself why he's doing this...coz i think it began with the thought of wanting to save dean.

i feel so bad for him he breaks my heart

i love him so much. when he crys i cry. he needs Sam, even if sam goes evil he wont go against his brother.

I just wanna give him a hug!
I mean he is a seal. His brother,the only one he really cares about,just told him he is holding him back,like seriously. He had a bad day. No more like a bad season!
i don't think he is being boring or depressing.
Realistic is more like it. I would love to see Dean jumping around being wity and his old stuff (even though he is still a little joker even now in 4x15 "I am so filling up Demi Moore)but it would be bad writing cause it wouldn't happen. I feel bad for Dean.....
*hugs Dean*
Come on,lets go get you some pie."

I totally agree with you Aerohead. If Dean didn't suffer the effects of what happened in hell(and everything else life has thrown at him), that would just be poor writing. People don't just get over stuff like that and they shouldn't. If he had we'd all be bitching that he was shallow or something!

just when you think he had it the worst, bam!! he's the person who has pretty much started the apocalypse and then told only he can end it...that's a lot of pressure for one guy to handle!

i agree with Aerohead...let's get him some pie :)

I just wanna give him a hug, tell him no body blames him for whats happening and look after him!
He needs his Sammy! But Sam is just not the same person he used to be! He's not really there for Dean anymore and Dean can't open up to Sam and tell him everything because he still needs to be the big brother figure. The only person he has now really is Cas. How lets face it is not the most emotionally helpful guy!

Dear Dean:

I am not against you. In fact, I love you. Which is why I won't sit back and watch you do this to yourself any more. Like I said somewhere else, the pity party's over. Dean, your biggest problem - ALWAYS - has been your self-doubt. NOT self-worth, self-doubt. You constantly listen to and believe those voices, real and imagined, that tell you you're not good enough, that you're not the man your dad was, etc., ad nauseum. Yes, you're in a pretty bad place right now, but you're the only one keeping yourself there.

Come on, Dean, grow a pair! The reason your brother is leaving you behind is not because he doesn't love you, or doesn't care, it's that, once again, you will do nothing to help yourself. Yes, you went through a horrible experience, but let me put it to you this way: For years now, Sam has had to live with the knowledge that he is part-demon. Like you, it was something that was DONE to him, and threatens to destroy his life. Have you ever seen him give up? NO! He's had to accept it, had to deal with it, had to fucking live with it!! (oops, sorry, that slipped out, heh,heh. And I shouldn't yell when you're in such a fragile state)

But see, I feel for Sam too. Nobody knows what he's all about, least of all you, because helping HIM cope was something you didn't do, something you wouldn't talk about, except to tell him, "Don't go there!" He's been without you for a long, long time now, and maybe you don't know this, but many, many people are totally pissed at him and calling him a real bastard because he's turned his back on you.

Has he, Dean? Turned his back on you? Yeah, he said some pretty awful things to you while under the siren's spell, but hey, I was paying attention, too. I saw you raise that axe and very seriously consider killing the brother that you love so much, you went to Hell for him. So...let me get this straight. Sam really meant everything he said, but you had no intention of killing him, it was the siren's spell? Which is it? Was the damn siren spell at work or not??? Or was it only at work for you, but not for Sam? See what I'm getting at?

Sam made his own decision to go ahead and try to do something about the...um...well, just the end of the world, nothing major. Something that, oddly, you haven't seemed to care a whole lot about. Sam has something to fight with, as dangerous as it is. If you don't pull your head out of your ass, then you've got nothing, and Sam was right. You are too afraid. But you know, I think he is too. And I know you're stronger than that, Dean Winchester. EVERYBODY knows you're stronger than that - except you.

You've got one hell of a daunting task ahead of you, but Sam's life isn't exactly all butterflies and rainbows these days, either. You're the only one who can fix what LILITH started - not what YOU started - Lilith!! So whatcha gonna do, boy? You know, the end of the world means no you OR Sam. No Bobby, no pretty girls, no pie, no nothing! Any of this blowing up your skirt? Stop wallowing! Make a decision or kiss your ass good-bye! If you can't do it, well....at least the rest of the world will never know that they could have been saved, so they won't blame you. No matter what you think of Sam, he's trying. I just wish you'd do the same.

(I make no apologies.)

Sorry, 67impala- I just have to dispute one thing. When you reference the siren's influence and say that Dean was going to kill Sam- well Sam was trying to kill Dean too- not that either of them wanted to kill the other! See, the siren was just doing what it had done to all it's other victims- magnifying their anger at each other into a killing rage. Their reasons for being angry were rooted in truth, but the extremes that anger was taken to was the siren's influence. If Sam had gotten to the ax first, it would have been him preparing to chop Dean's head off. So the siren's spell was working on both of them.

Gotta agree with ff here! Everyone the siren affected wanted to kill the person they were closest to, that they can't be blamed for! The stuff they said to each other (like in Asylum when Sam was under the doc influence) was based in truth.

Yes I understand that both brothers have been through a hell of a lot of crap, loosing family members, Sam being infected and different. But Dean had to turn into a thing that he hates! He did it because he saw no way out of Hell, he'd been there so long and endured so much. Now he's been pulled out of that world and has to live with what he's become while trying to be the man he used to. Its messed him up! But it took him 30 odd years to become that kind of man. Where as Sam chose to do what he is doing more freely and in, comparatively, no time at all! I know Sam has had to deal with the whole demon blood thing since the beginning but he never really relished in it, so why is he delving deeper into it now?

Yup! Can't argue with either fanfly or em_em on the point of the siren's influence affecting both of them. I KNOW it was, that was the point I was making, in a roundabout way.
I was pretty harsh on Dean in that paragraph, and in all honesty, I wrote it in reaction to having read so many times that what Sam said killed Dean emotionally, but it's rarely, if ever, mentioned that Dean acted rather nastily himself while under the siren's influence.
I wanted to revisit that side of it, to punctuate the point that if Dean is cut some slack because of the siren's spell, then Sam should be too.

I also completely agree that what Dean went through was horrendous and it's affected him deeply. A year on the show is comparative to a year in real time, so they're moving into the Spring, and so far only one seal has been saved. I think Sam has been pretty patient with Dean, but he began to question why they were running around from hunt to hunt while Lilith has been allowed to break the seals unchecked. I think it's fair to say that time is running out, and Dean simply doesn't have the time to keep avoiding facing that. I also think it's fair to say that if he can't do it, then what choice does Sam have but to go it alone?

I don't see Sam's decision to strengthen his demonic abilities as 'choosing freely' to delve deeper into it. Who's to say that he enjoys what he's doing? Or even that he's addicted to it? We don't know enough about what Sam's plan is right now to judge HIM so harshly. He doesn't have a hope in Hell of fighting these higher-level demons without this power. Should he sit back and do nothing? Can anyone say that what he's facing - going darkside and leading demons in a war - is any less horrible than what Dean would face if he decided to fight?

I don't understand what, IMO, is the prevailing attitude that it's okay for Dean not to act because he has been wounded so deeply. He HAS to - but if he really thinks that he can't, how can he question what Sam is doing?? If he concedes that he is not the man for the job, he forfeits his right to judge Sam about anything.

I don't think people are agreeing with Dean when he says he can't carry on fighting and that he is not the person to stop it all. But to do so he needs support, support which I don't think he is nessicerily getting if Sam is off honing his powers and practicing with Ruby. Yes they have both been through a load of crap but they are all the other has got and that used to mean the made a force to be reckoned with!
Dean needs to see that he needs to keep fighting, he is after all a righteous man!

I still don't really see what really forced Sam into taking the next step to start making him self less human!?! We know that he was an amazing hunter before, he has the fighting stuff sorted and he's a walking encyclopedia of weirdness' thanks to his bookwromy-ness! And then we saw in MS that if left on his own, even if he did become a very dark person, he could hold his own. He wasted whole nests of vamps, took out things that no other hunter could do on their own and then when he was done still had the strength to fix himself up! Yes he went dark but he was still human!! And before you say about those things he killed weren't as strong as Lilith, I know! But She couldn't touch him anyway could he not have been happy with that and used it to his advantage?! I mean its pretty handy, right!
I just don't see how this decision was force in any valid way.

Ha,ha! We may never see eye to eye on this one! ;)

How can you say that Sam's decision wasn't forced in any way? I would say the breaking of the seals and Lucifer walking free are pretty dire! I'm with you in that together, they made a formidable team. So if Dean had been working WITH Sam, they could have made more progress by now. You're absolutely right, Dean has to see that he needs to keep fighting...my point exactly! ;)

Looking back, Dean is dead and in Hell. After trying everything he could think of to get him back, Sam finally has to face the fact that he is alone, and he has to do something to stop Lilith. (He wouldn't have known at the time what she was really up to, but her indiscriminate killing of individuals and families,just for fun! was more than enough to warrant that.)

So he knows that she can't hurt him. But they both know that he can't defeat her, either, except for Ruby's knife, and there's no way she'll let him get close enough to deliver a killing blow! (In her mind she was probably thinking, all right, boy-king-in-waiting, I can't hurt you, but you can't stop me, so ta, ta! I'm off to break the rest of the seals!) Then Ruby comes along, again offering to help Sam get revenge on Lilith. She tells him that Lilith is cooking up something big - "apocalyptic big". Sam is really messed up himself by now, but he knows he needs to be stronger, and Ruby can teach him to use and expand on what he already has: latent demonic abilities. So yes, he took that step. How could he not? "Apocalyptic big" sounds like a pretty valid reason. And once he did find out what she was really up to, that was even more reason to pursue her, with a bit of added urgency!

Then there's Alastair, who can throw them all around like rag dolls; another white-eyed demon, another big threat to deal with. (That part of the story-line I don't get; why Alastair is apparently so much stronger than Lilith.) Again, does he just let it be until Alastair kills them all? As we've just seen, it's a good thing Sam prepared himself to take him on, or we'd be minus Dean right now, and Cas would be somewhere up in the great blue yonder.

What's happening to Sam is no different than what's happened to Dean: he's being forced to turn into something he doesn't want to be, something that horrified him before. (Or at least, DIDN'T want to be. We really don't know how he feels about that now.) But Dean had it much, much worse in the suffering department; I'll certainly not argue that.
:)

I've got stuff I want to say but I REALLY have to get on with my Science essay (grumble grumble) but once I'm done, or due for a break at least, I get something written down here! ;D

Looking forward to it, Em! Essays, bleahhhh! :D (And I know one thing you're probably going to point out: when Lilith took off, the first seal hadn't been broken yet - my booboo!) :p

i'm a bit tired...i'm gonna stop guessing till it's near the end of ssn 5 or until i'm strong enough to make another guess :D