I dont know why but I have always associated (?) homosexuality with sexuality and kids shouldn´t be watching, reading sexuality at a very young age

What do you call Bert and Ernie exactly?

"Overt" is a term that needs defining.

And I think homosexual couples are just the same as heterosexual couples, and should be represented in the same way. As couples.

Adavila, I'm not sure I catch your meaning.

yes of course, treating homosexuals differently to children will only breed another generation of skeptics and haters

Sorry - by "overt" I meant that the couple would be shown kissing or otherwise demonstrating that they are truly a romantic couple, as opposed to having an offscreen romance and simply being assumed to be a couple without physical evidence.

to the same level that heteros are shown.

***shakes head in shame***

They should be shown equally as heterosexual couples are shown.

It's reality, the sooner the kids are introduced to that reality, the less hate they'll grow up having.

a lot of young, innocent minds will be violated by filth, i'm afraid.

If blunt expressions of heterosexuality are shown, why not homosexuality? They're completely equal things and I think in this day and age its time for people to just finally realize that.

Kids are just kids. They don't really know anything. They grow up, THEN they learn what the world is like. So they should wait to learn about that path people have been choosing and choose themselves when they're old enough to actually pick things for themselves.
Today I was taking care of kids at church and a five-year-old got mad because we were talking about heaven and what will happen after Christ returns. Why did she get mad? Because she doesn't understand that stuff. She said she didn't wanna go to heaven. She may be five and understand more but she's still too young. I myself actually am way too young. So I may say things and then realize something else and end up in a confusion or something. I may understand but really, I also have lots to learn. But I learned about this path at a good age, or at least so I think.
I believe homosexuality is wrong. But if you think we should respect all and all their choices, go ahead. But really, do you think homosexuality is right? Because all I'm hearing is talk about respect. But kids, all they need is love really. They make bad choices and we have to teach them otherwise. Adults also make bad decisions. They just have more knowledge. But that doesn't mean everything they think or do is correct. Then again most of you who believe it is ok don't really believe in God or something. Not trying to be judgmental on that part because you're not all the same. I think I've said enough.

There is nothing wrong with a book having two mothers or two fathers.

To Dada:

Let's just assume for a second that homosexuality is wrong:

"They [kids] make bad choices" that doesn't mean that we should narrow down their choices.

"Today I was taking care of kids at church and a five-year-old got mad because we were talking about heaven and what will happen after Christ returns. Why did she get mad? Because she doesn't understand that stuff" Or it could be that she was bored, I remember getting very bored during the morning services when I was a child (I now go to evening services, much more exciting :D)

"Kids are just kids. They don't really know anything. They grow up, THEN they learn what the world is like." part of learning is making mistakes and learning from them.

I think its important to be opened up to everything and every choice from a young age. When a topic is shrouded in mystery and is seen as something not talk about children grow up thinking its wrong and begin to hate.

children should be exposed to many diffrent lifestyles no to coask them into choosing one but merely for awareness

Do I have to write a soapbox on the ignorance of "heterosexuals" claiming homosexuality is a choice? Because I will.

Homosexual relationships are just the same as heterosexual relationships, with all the same problems and perks that come with that. If Cinderella can kiss Prince Charming, the Fairy Godmother should be able to kiss Tinkerbell (from bliss's link.

Aren't Tinkerbell and Fairy Godmother from two seperate stories? :P

Not more than homosexuals couples are shown, but kids have to know about different people and stuff, or else they will end up narrow-minded.

yes they are knifewrench, but their love overcame the boundaries of their individual fairytales the way the prince overcame the metaphorical representations of his own ambiguous sexual orientation to get to Rapunzel.

Intra-fairytale mingling! Stop it! Stop it now! what if they breed?

no, that's your opinion because you are fine with it, but think about other people or other parents that would think differently, it's just wrong in their opinion they just don't want their kids to look at that or even think of that at a very young age. It's no that they are not giving the child freedom to chose their own path is that the child's mind has a lot to learn before he/she can grow into a responsable young adult and be able to fully understand homosexuallity. How many kids books do you see out there with Bod the builder kissing Diego?

What's there to fully understand? Just as the prince loves the princess, the prince can also love another prince. Simple as that, really. It's not microphysics after all.

DUDE! The F%$##@* prince is fricking 32 years old how da hell.... We are talking about kids here kids that need to grow up in a enviroment and then they grow up and acctualy UNDERSTAND. Not that they shouldn't be gay or something but they need time to get it.

I'm not too sure I understand your exuberant reaction. Who's thirty-two? I was just saying a prince, like in, oh, I don't know, Sleeping Beauty.

But my point is... what's there to understand that's more complicated than a hetero-romance? We have romantic stories for kids all the time between men and women. Those same stories exist for same sex couples. Believe me, I know a few of them. Not to mention the chauvinistic misogyny we enjoy showing in our fairy tales. Not that I'm criticizing-- I love that the prince rescues the princess every time except in the odd politically correct reversal of that (which I also love, like Mulan). But I'm just saying, if we can have misogyny and not give a damn, why give a damn about homosexuality?

I don't care. I'm big enought to handle it.

What does "misogyny" mean?

@ Knifewrench: According to the OED, "Hatred or dislike of, or prejudice against women."

According to feminist theory, both the cause and result of a patriarchal society, leading to the belief that women have a place beneath men.

I think homosexuality is wrong, and I'll teach my kids the same thing. That doesn't mean I'll teach them to hate or judge people. I think smoking is wrong too, but I don't hate all smokers. It's okay to disagree with someone's lifestyle. It's okay to have an opinion outside of what is considered politically correct. Gay people have the right to live how they want to live, but I also have the right to disagree with them. If I don't want my kids to see gay love scenes every time they turn on the tv or pick up a book, they shouldn't have to. That's all I'm saying.

thank you! xElvenPiratex that is what I was trying to say!!! Sorry Cinders I was mad at that moment, for all the bad words that's really not me REALLY!!!

I will never understand why people think it's wrong.

ElevenPiratex, teaching your children homosexuality is wrong? That's judgemental in the first place.

Also, if you don't want your children to know about all the different kinds of people in the world and the way they handle their lives... then yes, please let them live a very narrow and sheltered life.

However, if you want them to be prepared for what is out there, let them experience every side of it.

Also, homosexuality isn't a matter of choice. What if one of your children turns out to be homosexual? There's no way to say what your children will grow up to be, you can either be tolerant and show them what's out there, or have them be scared of coming to you if anything like this would come up.

Cause really, if you were my mom, there's no way I'd come to you for advise if I turned out to be gay.

why do so many people think it is wrong?!
its not a lifestyle choice... did you choose to be straight?! no!
did you choose who your parents would be, if you were born as a male or female??? no!

its nature and why shouldnt kids know about the real world? why lie to them? homosexual couples are NO different to straight couples, and i'll never understand why so many people believe so

Just as equally as "overt" heterosexuality. If one has such a problem with having their child being exposed to it, then that is their responsibility.

I support the rights of everyone in our world to the fullest. I have a friend who is bisexual, and two aunts that are homosexual, so I did not choose no because I'm against homosexuality. Just to get that out of the way..

If you meant older children such as twelve years old and up, then yes I would approve of that. This is because children at the age of twelve and older are MATURE and open-minded enough to learn about homosexuality and fully accept it.

Younger children such as eight-year-olds and six-year-olds, I absolutely say "no" for.

To me, they seem too young to understand something like that. They are used to the idea of a mommy and a daddy together from the day they are born. The idea of two boys marrying each other or two girls in a relationship, it...well, I don't know.

I believe that everyone in the world should accept homosexuality and other differences some of us may have...

But to have people accept something significant like this during such an early stage as childhood...we should wait for the child to become older before teaching him/her about ANY sexuality.

I guess what I am trying to say is that some children are too young and should not be..I do not want to say "exposed"..introduced to something like different sexualities and fully accepting them at a young age, at least not yet.

"To me, they seem too young to understand something like that. They are used to the idea of a mommy and a daddy together from the day they are born."

And what of those young children who had daddy and daddy or mommy and mommy together since they day they were born? There are several children with gay parents, whose friends don't understand it. There are also several children's stories who can explain these different family structures very well, and it has shown to reduce teasing in the schools in which it's been implemented.

To Cinders,

I've always been aware that some children have parents who are of the same gender and are homosexual. I was focusing more on explaining my points without sounding offensive, and forgot significant details like that. I know some children have homosexual parents and would grow to appreciate and respect that.

But..for children who aren't born in that situation, I just think they should be a little older before learning about homosexuality. Perhaps children around the ages of eleven and older would be fine, because they're old enough to learn homosexuality, understand it, and be perfectly fine with it. But for children younger, I just think it's a little too early.

Also, if there are books who teach children about homosexuality today, I think it's wonderful, especially if it results in children accepting people's different sexualities.

Some schools incorporate picture books with gay characters quite effectively into their classrooms. I know this because I happened to work in one of those classrooms. As a result, the students showed an incredible amount of understanding and tolerance to people with different gender preferences.

The thing is, homosexuality is not "dirty," and not incomprehensible to children anymore than heterosexuality. I had a student who wrote a page on adoption with link.

When I asked that girl (We'll call her Natasha) why she wrote "Mommy and Mommy or Daddy and Daddy" she said, "Because some families are like that." I asked her, "What does a Mommy and Mommy do differently than a Mommy and Daddy?" and she said "Nothing, they love each other just the same."

Too often the capabilities of a child's comprehension are underestimated by parents and teachers a like. They are far more open-minded and willing to learn than adults are. What people think about when they think "homosexuality in children's books" is "homosexual sex in children's books" which is just as inappropriate as suggesting heterosexual sex in children's books. But homosexual relationships are a fact of the world, and the important thing is to teach children that these relationships are just as valid as heterosexual relationships.

Those who believe homosexuality to be wrong would say that this is part of the "liberal homosexual agenda," and it is a fine line to walk between teaching understanding and preaching values. If a student is eleven or twelve, odds are they've already been influenced by their family and other societal factors to have formed an opinion (one way or the other) on homosexuality. When teaching it (to any students, but especially those with pre-formed opinions), it's important to emphasize that you respect whatever religious belief they subscribe to, but that homosexuality exists whether they think it's wrong or not, and the people who are gay deserve respect, if not approval.

There is a reading list circulating amongst educators with suggested reading with gay characters. I'll include a few of the more well-known ones below:

link
link
link
link (an adorable true story about penguins and a personal favorite)
link (includes traditional nuclear family, single parents, lesbian and gay parents, mixed-race couples, grandparents and divorced parents.)

In other words, there are several easy, comprehensible ways to incorporate different family styles and romantic relationships in a way that any child can understand. Especially as gays and lesbians reported feeling "different" at remarkably young ages.

@knifewrench - Kids have innocent minds. If we, as older teens and adults get frustrated over this topic, imagine kids! They don't deserve that frustration! All they need to do is be kids and focus on learning and growing.

It was not like Sunday school. I was watching them while playing with toys and coloring. We were sitting down at a table coloring and discussing the topic. It was a light conversation, so no, she was not bored. She was actually very intrigued.

Yes, part of life is learning from mistakes. But that doesn't mean we all have to make the same mistakes. When I was a kid I didn't know the world was so cruel. Sure, the world has changed a lot in my generation, but I was always innocent. I made many mistakes but those mistakes have nothing to do with this topic. It's an adult's topic. I actually don't even know if I knew about this when I was little. I like it better that way. Kids are not ready to make important decisions and they do not have much knowledge on debating topics.

Look at it this way. Would it be okay for children to go to war? Because that's what this is except it's spiritual. A child would have no place in a battlefield. It would die instantly. I've met guys who suffered as kids because of this. I'm sure they would have had a much happier childhood if it didn't have anything to do with that.

This topic has to do with sex. Some videos teach us to have a "sex talk" with our kids once they reach puberty. If it is irrelevant before that, why would homosexuality be okay to a three-year-old? Why would you teach a baby about sex so they could be scarred?

There are TV shows that hide characters who are a bit too girly or something like that. That is horrible because if it's on Nickelodeon and a mother buys it for her 2-year-old and the child learns it's okay when the mother didn't want that, that's just horrible.

As for the pick's question, science has proven that we are not born with any preferences, so we should not attack children with something a person may grow over time.

And if a girl grows up with two fathers, don't you think she might grow to date women? It's what was implanted in her mind as a child. Some things we learn as children stick with us forever.

@Dada: Adults and people my age get frustrated because we are set in our ways and opinions. Kids minds are completely open, so there won't be a problem.

"And if a girl grows up with two fathers, don't you think she might grow to date women? It's what was implanted in her mind as a child. Some things we learn as children stick with us forever. "

Maybe. Maybe not. If so, what would be wrong with that? One of my closest friends? She has two mothers. She's straight. Does she support LGBT and advocate as a straight ally? Yes. She does. But she is totally straight.

Do straight parents always have straight kids?

'It's an adult's topic. I actually don't even know if I knew about this when I was little. I like it better that way.'

It's not an adult topic really. Why would two princes or two princesses be more adult than a prince and a princess?
I think you really underestimate the fact that children have a very open mind. They don't judge as much as adults do. When properly explained they can deal with a lot more than you would think.

'Would it be okay for children to go to war? Because that's what this is except it's spiritual.'

No that is not what this is. I don't see how telling children about the fact that sometimes someone has two daddys or two mommies is the same as sending them to war.
You might not like homosexuala but I think it quite offensive that you compare homosexuality to war.

'This topic has to do with sex.'

This topic does not have to do with sex. Just like heterosexual sex is not shown in children's media, we're not saying heterosexual sex should be shown. Just show that there are also homosexual couples, sex is not needed.

'Some videos teach us to have a "sex talk" with our kids once they reach puberty. If it is irrelevant before that, why would homosexuality be okay to a three-year-old? Why would you teach a baby about sex so they could be scarred?'

I don't think sexual education is irrelevent before that, despite what some video might say. Ofcourse, telling a child to us a condom and how to recognise STD's can wait until they are older, but other things can be taught at an earlier age. The difference between boys and girls, where babies come from (without getting graphic), how to recognise a sexual predator.
And ofcourse it also depends on the child. Some children will be able to handle these things earlier than others.

'As for the pick's question, science has proven that we are not born with any preferences, so we should not attack children with something a person may grow over time.'

People do not grow over their sexual preferences. Science might say we are born without preferences: but that does not imply that our preferences are only there temporarely.
Or will you one day grow over your (assumed) heterosexuality and become gay?

'And if a girl grows up with two fathers, don't you think she might grow to date women? It's what was implanted in her mind as a child. Some things we learn as children stick with us forever. '

If what your saying here is correct we would not be having this discussion. If straight parents only raise straight children and homosexual parents only raise homosexual children, centuries of 'straight only' cultures would have made it so no gays existed today.
The truth is, straight parents raise homosexual/straight/bisexual/trangender children, as do homosexual parents.

Sappp said everything I would have said (in response to Dada). Also, how in the world is discussing that there are different family types, a tolerance and diversity issue, equivalent to child soldiers, a human rights violation?

And I may be behind on recent developments. Which studies suggest that we are born without sexuality? I find that very curious! Could you show me?

And you may be interested in link, and the studies it cites.

And thanks, Sappp, for reiterating that this isn't about gay sex. Even though I already said that. Nobody listens to me.

I must say that I too was curious concerning the study: but I choose not to debate that, but rather the dubious conclusion gained from that study (that sexuality in temporarely).

But which study are we discussing?

[i]'As for the pick's question, science has proven that we are not born with any preferences, so we should not attack children with something a person may grow over time.' [i/]

I was discussing this one... sorry for the confusion.

Btw Dada, do you have a link to this study?

When it comes to this pick, I personally feel that it doesn't matter whether or not homosexuality is developed or not, the fact is that it exists, and we have to increase tolerance of it.

Excellent point, MissKnowItAll.

I think a child should learn about homosexuality at a particular age, if not aware of it already.

I've never thought about Bert and Ernie as gay! :o

Why not? Overt heterosexuality is there.

If a child can watch Quasimodo have fruit thrown at him and be ridiculed for his appearance, watch a half-fish woman in a bikini top kiss a man, watch Mulan save the emperor and all of China from the Huns who burned down villages, and see baby Simba pawing at his father's dead body and be okay, then I'm fairly certain they're more than capable of watching a man kiss another man and still be okay.

Actually, I think homosexuality is the least of the "children media's" problems.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for equality. But I don't think the world is ready for it. If a children's book like that were to appear on the storeshelves in this day and age, it would cause a huge clamor. The book probably wouldn't sell very well either. So no. Maybe another time.

Except that the works in the booklist I posted are actually selling quite well for children's books, and being employed in (admittedly, mostly private school) classrooms as we speak.

"The world isn't ready for it" has never been an adequate argument for anything, as far as I'm concerned. They were saying that about women's suffrage, civil rights, and interracial marriage. Do you think the activists fighting for those things should have waited, because people pointed out "the world isn't ready?" The world is what we make it, and it will never be ready until we force it to be.

Point taken. Let me word it differently then. The people aren't ready for it. The largest amount of the world population consists of Christian beliefs. And we all know how the Bible talks about people.

But honestly, I'm for it. If your book is doing so well, you should get a translator and sell it here. I would love to get the homophobia out of this world.

"The world" and "people" are the same thing. My point still stands. And many, many Christians have no problem with homosexuality.

I guess. Still, I'm torn on the question. I would approve of a children's book like that, but I just dunno if I would buy it for my child. I would personally let my child discover the means of sexuality when he's older.

What about a children's book link

I really like it. It talks about acceptance of a sexuality other than heterosexuality and it may bring up the child to think of homosexuality in the same way of heterosexuality. I even cracked a smile a couple of times. I'm convinced. I'm changing my answer. Still, I'm telling you many parents won't pick this up if they ever saw this on the store shelves.

I'd love to see books like these in stores, it just wouldn't sell. It's a taboo.

Allow me to reiterate my earlier point that these books do exist, and have a decent profit margin. One even recently released a link. Most books that don't sell don't release special editions.

I would say this is brainwashing and interferring in the father mother hood and its evil. I will grow my children as i like and as i fit on how they should be grown. If a teacher does force my child to read such a book. I am the first who will prosecute and this is surely in any ay possible. Who touches my child my blood my culture he she they touch me us our culture!

Just because the books exist doesn't mean you have to purchase them.

It teaches them to be accepting of things that are different and it teaches them to not discriminate, that love is love no matter what genders share it. And as someone else mentioned; homosexuality is one of kids' show's smaller problems, I was watching an episode of The Amazing World of Gumball or whatever and the dad out right talked about how his nipples hurt.

@next4clean Brainwashing? More like mind opening. It seems more like brainwashing to actively teach a kid to be a homophobe without even giving the kid a chance to form his/her own opinion. Teaching your kid how you want to is fair enough but it seems a bit much to storm into a teacher's classroom and do what you will to him/her for reading a book. In school children will be exposed to various themes, homosexuality (in high school) is one of them, if you don't like that, I would suggest homeschooling.

just no porn or anything like that. Steven Universe has two lesbian characters, other shows should, too.